EFI problems
Moderator: MalcolmV8
- 302project
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:42 pm
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EFI problems
Hello
I own a 93 ranger with a 347 stroker in it. I decide to go with the fuel injected route. However I installed the 5.0 harness to the truck's harness, I get current on all my sensors. Where i'm having problems is on my injectors, meaning that i get 12volts to the main harness(the injectors) but the injectors does not pulsate because I tested the harness with a some sort of tester that my dad have to test the computer voltage to the injectors. Now i have 2 v8 computers and i tested it both and nothing.
Any idea guys????
BTW I used the Harwood Performance Book
Thanks!!!!!!!
I own a 93 ranger with a 347 stroker in it. I decide to go with the fuel injected route. However I installed the 5.0 harness to the truck's harness, I get current on all my sensors. Where i'm having problems is on my injectors, meaning that i get 12volts to the main harness(the injectors) but the injectors does not pulsate because I tested the harness with a some sort of tester that my dad have to test the computer voltage to the injectors. Now i have 2 v8 computers and i tested it both and nothing.
Any idea guys????
BTW I used the Harwood Performance Book
Thanks!!!!!!!
-
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- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:43 pm
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- Location: Spring Hill, FL (1 hour N of Tampa)
do you have 12v at the red wires at the injectors? check the red wire to ground with the key on and the test light to ground, not accross the connector. if you have power check the driver circuits back to the pcm. if you dont have power check again at another red wire (evr, cp solenoid, tab or tad). if still no check right off the eec relay. does the light stay on or not come on at all when you check the injectors?
95 2wd shortbed styleside with a 98 mountaineer 5.0
ported GT-40P heads, E-303 cam, Trick Flow Street Heat intake, 1.7 rollers, 24lb injs,155lph in-tank pump, built AOD, 2800 converter, Torque Monster headers, dropped 3/4 on 98 Cobra wheels. Eternal work in progress.
94 Ranger XLT b. 6/10/94 d.3/28/11 300,842 miles RIP
06 Fusion SEL
11 F150 FX2 SCrew 5.0 Coyote, Custom SCT X3 tune, Roush CAI
ported GT-40P heads, E-303 cam, Trick Flow Street Heat intake, 1.7 rollers, 24lb injs,155lph in-tank pump, built AOD, 2800 converter, Torque Monster headers, dropped 3/4 on 98 Cobra wheels. Eternal work in progress.
94 Ranger XLT b. 6/10/94 d.3/28/11 300,842 miles RIP
06 Fusion SEL
11 F150 FX2 SCrew 5.0 Coyote, Custom SCT X3 tune, Roush CAI
- cgrey8
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At this point, it could be a number of problems. IMO, these are the most likely problems:
So what's the downside to the TwEECerRT and Do-It-Yourself tuning? Well for one, there's a huge learning curve to overcome. Two, it's an expensive initial investment. It's about $550 new I think just for the hardware. The software that comes with it SUCKS so you'll need to know that right off the bat so you can get another guy's software (BinaryEditor and EEC Analyzer for $100) that allows you to do the tuning and analysis of your data to be an effective tuner. IMO, these softwares should be what come with the TwEECer, but the developer/seller of the TwEECer is more interested in just sitting back and making money than he is at actually supporting his product. But the tuning community takes up the slack and supplies users with ample support and tools to use the product well. But if you just spent a butt-load of money on the TwEECer just to find out you need more software, you can begin to get pissed real quick.
Next, you'll want (not need) a wideband O2 sensor to tune out the Open Loop/WOT conditions correctly. The TwEECer will tell you what the EEC was trying to command for AFR. The wideband will tell you how far off the EEC was in it's attempts so you can make adjustments accordingly. The most basic widebands with no meter in the cab run about $180 on eBay. If you've abandoned/deleted your EGR, you can reuse the EGR position sensor input on the EEC for your wideband and datalog the wideband right along with all your other data through the TwEECer. However if you are like me and you need to maintain an EGR, then you'll need yet another piece of hardware called a DataQ which is nothing but an A/D converter that converts the WB's 0-5v signal to a serial communication the computer can use. BE can interface with the DataQ and datalog it along with your TwEECer datalogged info. The wideband O2 sensor isn't absolutely necessary unless you are looking for absolute MAX performance at WOT. But since most people are more interested in max power than they are at driveability, this is just one of the tools they need. I personally am far more interested in driveability than WOT performance since my Ranger is my daily driver. So I've gotten away for a few years now without a wideband, and instead just using the two narrow-band HEGOs the computer uses during closed loop. But I can honestly say that having a WB would've made my tuning experience easier and worth the money. Think of a wideband as like glasses for a person that can see, but just not very good.
Is there any good news? Yes. If you can buy a used TwEECer, then once you are done, you can burn your tune to a $60 Moates chip and sell the TwEECer for as much as you paid for it. The resell value of the TwEECer is amazingly strong. On the boards, I see used TwEECers selling for $450 all the time. I guess you could also sell the wideband too and recoup some cost there too. But personally, I have no plans to ever sell it. DIY tuning is an addiction that's got me hooked bad. I datalog almost every drive I make in my truck just to see how things are doing.
Well, that was a tangent-n-a-half. Back on subject...
- No Power to EEC
- EEC is bad (not likely)
- Wiring problem somewhere
- Distributor/TFI module isn't working so the EEC doesn't know the engine is turning over and thus doesn't know to fire the injectors
So what's the downside to the TwEECerRT and Do-It-Yourself tuning? Well for one, there's a huge learning curve to overcome. Two, it's an expensive initial investment. It's about $550 new I think just for the hardware. The software that comes with it SUCKS so you'll need to know that right off the bat so you can get another guy's software (BinaryEditor and EEC Analyzer for $100) that allows you to do the tuning and analysis of your data to be an effective tuner. IMO, these softwares should be what come with the TwEECer, but the developer/seller of the TwEECer is more interested in just sitting back and making money than he is at actually supporting his product. But the tuning community takes up the slack and supplies users with ample support and tools to use the product well. But if you just spent a butt-load of money on the TwEECer just to find out you need more software, you can begin to get pissed real quick.
Next, you'll want (not need) a wideband O2 sensor to tune out the Open Loop/WOT conditions correctly. The TwEECer will tell you what the EEC was trying to command for AFR. The wideband will tell you how far off the EEC was in it's attempts so you can make adjustments accordingly. The most basic widebands with no meter in the cab run about $180 on eBay. If you've abandoned/deleted your EGR, you can reuse the EGR position sensor input on the EEC for your wideband and datalog the wideband right along with all your other data through the TwEECer. However if you are like me and you need to maintain an EGR, then you'll need yet another piece of hardware called a DataQ which is nothing but an A/D converter that converts the WB's 0-5v signal to a serial communication the computer can use. BE can interface with the DataQ and datalog it along with your TwEECer datalogged info. The wideband O2 sensor isn't absolutely necessary unless you are looking for absolute MAX performance at WOT. But since most people are more interested in max power than they are at driveability, this is just one of the tools they need. I personally am far more interested in driveability than WOT performance since my Ranger is my daily driver. So I've gotten away for a few years now without a wideband, and instead just using the two narrow-band HEGOs the computer uses during closed loop. But I can honestly say that having a WB would've made my tuning experience easier and worth the money. Think of a wideband as like glasses for a person that can see, but just not very good.
Is there any good news? Yes. If you can buy a used TwEECer, then once you are done, you can burn your tune to a $60 Moates chip and sell the TwEECer for as much as you paid for it. The resell value of the TwEECer is amazingly strong. On the boards, I see used TwEECers selling for $450 all the time. I guess you could also sell the wideband too and recoup some cost there too. But personally, I have no plans to ever sell it. DIY tuning is an addiction that's got me hooked bad. I datalog almost every drive I make in my truck just to see how things are doing.
Well, that was a tangent-n-a-half. Back on subject...
...Always Somethin'
89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller
Admin of EECtuning.org
89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller
Admin of EECtuning.org
- 302project
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- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:42 pm
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Yeah I get 12volts on all my sensors including the injectors. And when I check the injectors the light stays off.cjcnomor4 wrote:do you have 12v at the red wires at the injectors? check the red wire to ground with the key on and the test light to ground, not across the connector. if you have power check the driver circuits back to the pcm. if you dont have power check again at another red wire (evr, cp solenoid, tab or tad). if still no check right off the eec relay. does the light stay on or not come on at all when you check the injectors?
I was checking the tfi module and i get like 4.86 volts to the computer so I guess that that's normal but i don't know if that's the right voltage for the computercgrey8 wrote: * No Power to EEC
* EEC is bad (not likely)
* Wiring problem somewhere
* Distributor/TFI module isn't working so the EEC doesn't know the engine is turning over and thus doesn't know to fire the injectors
Last edited by 302project on Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
- cgrey8
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To be honest, I don't know what the voltage is between the TFI and the computer. However if I had to guess, I'd say 5v. The important connection is the feedback signal that tells the EEC that the distributor is turning so it knows to fire the injectors.
However the commanded spark signal from the computer to the TFI module could be severed and the engine should still crank. In fact, this is what you are doing when you pull the SPOUT jumper at the distributor to set the timing with a timing light. To diagnose whether the TFI is working, you could disconnect the EEC and get a meter on the PIP pin in the harness that comes from the TFI module. If that line is pulsing when the engine is turned over, then the TFI is working AND you can trust the signal is getting to the EEC.
Now here's some background tangent talk again. Feel free to quit reading at this point. Pulling the SPOUT tells the TFI module not to apply any additional spark advance. See the TFI module is what's actually watching the distributor and firing the coil, not the EEC. The only thing the EEC does is monitor the PIPs to determine RPM and when to fire injectors. The EEC also communicates via a Pulse-Width-Modulates signal how much advance to apply. The EEC assumes base spark is 10°BTC so set the timing there using a timing light. Most people without tuners add another 2-6° of advance at the distributor to improve their WOT performance. On stock or near-stock motors, this works pretty good. But on high compression engines, this puts quite a strain on the starter since that same advance is in play during the crank. Anybody with a custom tune just tunes the EEC to command the desired advance but leaves the distributor at 10°.
However the commanded spark signal from the computer to the TFI module could be severed and the engine should still crank. In fact, this is what you are doing when you pull the SPOUT jumper at the distributor to set the timing with a timing light. To diagnose whether the TFI is working, you could disconnect the EEC and get a meter on the PIP pin in the harness that comes from the TFI module. If that line is pulsing when the engine is turned over, then the TFI is working AND you can trust the signal is getting to the EEC.
Now here's some background tangent talk again. Feel free to quit reading at this point. Pulling the SPOUT tells the TFI module not to apply any additional spark advance. See the TFI module is what's actually watching the distributor and firing the coil, not the EEC. The only thing the EEC does is monitor the PIPs to determine RPM and when to fire injectors. The EEC also communicates via a Pulse-Width-Modulates signal how much advance to apply. The EEC assumes base spark is 10°BTC so set the timing there using a timing light. Most people without tuners add another 2-6° of advance at the distributor to improve their WOT performance. On stock or near-stock motors, this works pretty good. But on high compression engines, this puts quite a strain on the starter since that same advance is in play during the crank. Anybody with a custom tune just tunes the EEC to command the desired advance but leaves the distributor at 10°.
...Always Somethin'
89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller
Admin of EECtuning.org
89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller
Admin of EECtuning.org
- 302project
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:42 pm
- SM: No
- Contact:
-
- Posts: 665
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:43 pm
- SM: No
- Location: Spring Hill, FL (1 hour N of Tampa)
i dont think all 8 injector driver circuits could be open. check them any way. do you have spark?
95 2wd shortbed styleside with a 98 mountaineer 5.0
ported GT-40P heads, E-303 cam, Trick Flow Street Heat intake, 1.7 rollers, 24lb injs,155lph in-tank pump, built AOD, 2800 converter, Torque Monster headers, dropped 3/4 on 98 Cobra wheels. Eternal work in progress.
94 Ranger XLT b. 6/10/94 d.3/28/11 300,842 miles RIP
06 Fusion SEL
11 F150 FX2 SCrew 5.0 Coyote, Custom SCT X3 tune, Roush CAI
ported GT-40P heads, E-303 cam, Trick Flow Street Heat intake, 1.7 rollers, 24lb injs,155lph in-tank pump, built AOD, 2800 converter, Torque Monster headers, dropped 3/4 on 98 Cobra wheels. Eternal work in progress.
94 Ranger XLT b. 6/10/94 d.3/28/11 300,842 miles RIP
06 Fusion SEL
11 F150 FX2 SCrew 5.0 Coyote, Custom SCT X3 tune, Roush CAI
- 302project
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:42 pm
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yes but is the ecm grounded? are all(about 5) the harness ground eyelets attached to good grounds.you have voltage not current.is the fuel pump relay wired in and working?do you have fuel at the rail?does power stay on in start, not just run?
2000 trailhead,400 hp 5.0.still want more,blown,motor,410 going together now.
- 302project
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^^^^ Good call dude, I'm looking at a picture of the main harness and connector 26 is the eec ground which is not grounded. I'll hook it up when I get go home for sure .Also in my harness there's no fuel pump relay and when i connect it to the ranger fuel pump wiring according to matt's instruction it doesn't do anything but since the ecm is not grounded I hope that this solves the problem.
there should be several grounds.there is 1 off the injector plug harness going to the firewall.where the motor grounds to the cab also.the ecc controls grounds not 12v most solinoids,and relays are wired to voltage.then the ecc controls the ground to make them work.make sure your motor ,frame and cab are grounded also they are important for efi especially.good luck
2000 trailhead,400 hp 5.0.still want more,blown,motor,410 going together now.
- 302project
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- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:42 pm
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- 302project
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:42 pm
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