Really really don't want cats
Moderator: MalcolmV8
Really really don't want cats
I have my donor vehicle now, a 97 mountaineer that I have driven more than 200 miles just to burn the gas out before I parked it.
Noticed the PO had a problem with the left bank cat (the one that goes cross ways) and has in fact removed it.
I really don't want to re cat the thing, and was wondering what it takes to fool the PCM in to thinking it is reading the O sensors by feeding it a fixed value that would be OK for overall performance.
It burns a little oil, I feel it would destroy a new cat in a few months and would rather not deal with it.
Noticed the PO had a problem with the left bank cat (the one that goes cross ways) and has in fact removed it.
I really don't want to re cat the thing, and was wondering what it takes to fool the PCM in to thinking it is reading the O sensors by feeding it a fixed value that would be OK for overall performance.
It burns a little oil, I feel it would destroy a new cat in a few months and would rather not deal with it.
- cgrey8
- Supporting Member
- Posts: 4055
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:23 pm
- SM: No
- Location: Acworth, Ga (Metro Atlanta)
- Contact:
Re: Really really don't want cats
I've heard there are secondary HEGO delete "simulators" that you connect up instead of the secondary HEGOs. The other option is to have the tune updated to not check the secondary HEGOs. It's a trivial thing to change in the tune and if that's all you want done, you can buy a new chip from guys on the Internet that'll mail you a chip you just plug onto the EEC to do that...assuming the EEC is 2001 or older. Somewhere in the mid 2000s, Ford transitioned away from Intel processors to PowerPC processors and thus no longer have the ability to be "chipped" like that. For them, you have to reflash the onboard memory which requires hardware connected to the OBD-II port. If you decide you want to go that route, I can direct you to a guy that'll do just that and possibly even made additional mods that you might want. Depending on the year EEC, you may also want the EGR deleted, bump up spark tables up a bit so you can run premium and actually benefit by doing so, alter shift points on trans (assuming you keep the stock trans), delete other emissions things like tank pressure sensor (if 98-2001 Explorer EEC), disable PATS, etc etc.
...Always Somethin'
89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller
Admin of EECtuning.org
89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller
Admin of EECtuning.org
Re: Really really don't want cats
Thank you,
For all practical purposes it will be a stock transmission, it will be the same year with the same electronics it will be for a 2wd instead of a 4wd.
The PCM will be the stock 1997 mountaineer 5.0 with auto, so no pats.
I might end up needing "that guy" but want to only send it out once so I will wait till near the end of the build and come up with a list.
We have an array of scanners and diagnostic computer "doohickeys" here, I know they were able to adjust the tire size on my Dodge ram with one of them so I'll hook the Mounty up and browse through the list of features before I dissect it.
For all practical purposes it will be a stock transmission, it will be the same year with the same electronics it will be for a 2wd instead of a 4wd.
The PCM will be the stock 1997 mountaineer 5.0 with auto, so no pats.
I might end up needing "that guy" but want to only send it out once so I will wait till near the end of the build and come up with a list.
We have an array of scanners and diagnostic computer "doohickeys" here, I know they were able to adjust the tire size on my Dodge ram with one of them so I'll hook the Mounty up and browse through the list of features before I dissect it.
Re: Really really don't want cats
OK I have determined I would like to know more about "that guy's" services, and if there is any way I could pay him to give me encrypted tunes that I could just laptop in myself.
I'm sure I don't want the rear O sensors (or HEGOS as you called them), I don't want EGR, I don't want to know if the gas cap is off, and would like to have the option to change shift points but after I get the rear end in it.
I scored some motorsports headers. They aren't torque monsters but they have to be better than stock?
Thanx-
I'm sure I don't want the rear O sensors (or HEGOS as you called them), I don't want EGR, I don't want to know if the gas cap is off, and would like to have the option to change shift points but after I get the rear end in it.
I scored some motorsports headers. They aren't torque monsters but they have to be better than stock?
Thanx-
- cgrey8
- Supporting Member
- Posts: 4055
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:23 pm
- SM: No
- Location: Acworth, Ga (Metro Atlanta)
- Contact:
Re: Really really don't want cats
The cheaper option is to buy a tune and chip. But this doesn't give you the ability to do anything other than connect or disconnect the chip.JAMMAN wrote:OK I have determined I would like to know more about "that guy's" services, and if there is any way I could pay him to give me encrypted tunes that I could just laptop in myself...
If you want the ability to make tune changes yourself, then you'll need the software and hardware to do that. The same guy (username decipha from the EECTuning.org forum) could still assist you with a mail-order tune that you load in yourself, but it's a good bit more up front cost to outfit yourself with both the hardware and software needed to do more of the work yourself. I'm not discouraging that. In fact, I think if you have even the slightest desire to be more involved in your tune, it is worth the investment. Anyway, send him a Private Message from the EECTuning.org forum and see what he says...
FMS Explorer headers? Are they the crazy-shaped ones? If they are, that's what I've been running on my Ranger since day 1. I never ran the stock ones because they just looked SOOO crappy that I had no interest given the FMS headers were available at the time and for a relatively reasonable price. The later cast iron manifolds are better, but probably still not as nice as the FMS Explorer header. And of course, as you mentioned, the creme-de-la-creme headers are the Torque Monsters. But I'm still not convinced they would fit in my era Ranger just looking at pics of others that have used them in 94-97 era Rangers.JAMMAN wrote:...I scored some motorsports headers. They aren't torque monsters but they have to be better than stock?
...Always Somethin'
89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller
Admin of EECtuning.org
89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller
Admin of EECtuning.org
Re: Really really don't want cats
Groovy, off to register at EECTuning.org later this evening.
This is the headers. (these are the headers? Fine line) I hear they are hard to find, perhaps I didn't look in the right place. Found these from a guy on facebook but he frequents one of the explorer forums.
![Image](http://data1systems.com/images/headers2.jpg)
This is the headers. (these are the headers? Fine line) I hear they are hard to find, perhaps I didn't look in the right place. Found these from a guy on facebook but he frequents one of the explorer forums.
![Image](http://data1systems.com/images/headers2.jpg)
- cgrey8
- Supporting Member
- Posts: 4055
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:23 pm
- SM: No
- Location: Acworth, Ga (Metro Atlanta)
- Contact:
Re: Really really don't want cats
Yep, that's them. Those are obviously used.
Malcolm and I both got our FMS Explorer header Jet-Hot coated. When I got them back, they were very shiny. They dulled fairly quickly with use and eventually started peeling. However 10 years later, they don't look that much different than they did 3 months after I got them. The coating does a GREAT job of preserving header tubes. I don't regret getting them coated one bit.
Malcolm and I both got our FMS Explorer header Jet-Hot coated. When I got them back, they were very shiny. They dulled fairly quickly with use and eventually started peeling. However 10 years later, they don't look that much different than they did 3 months after I got them. The coating does a GREAT job of preserving header tubes. I don't regret getting them coated one bit.
...Always Somethin'
89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller
Admin of EECtuning.org
89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller
Admin of EECtuning.org
Re: Really really don't want cats
Well I'm in at the other place, thank you. Will have to do days of reading before I have the nerve to post, my tuning experience is NA. I understand the concept, have scanned several cars with several readers (mostly GM's they seem to need it more) and have seen a setup where a guy at work put a turbo on his V6 mustang then rode around for months with a laptop getting tunes e-mailed to him till he got what he wanted.
I even own a USB OBD2 cable.
We sell superchips at work but for diesels. We have pre define tunes we load them with depending on customer needs. I program CNC machines and even do a little PHP and MySQL so I hope I can migrate into EEC tuning as another hobby.
Maybe I'll get brave enough to throw a turbo on the second ranger project, I probably have enough pieces under the bench to put a small one together.
Oh well off to reading, thanks again for inviting me-
Jim
I even own a USB OBD2 cable.
We sell superchips at work but for diesels. We have pre define tunes we load them with depending on customer needs. I program CNC machines and even do a little PHP and MySQL so I hope I can migrate into EEC tuning as another hobby.
Maybe I'll get brave enough to throw a turbo on the second ranger project, I probably have enough pieces under the bench to put a small one together.
Oh well off to reading, thanks again for inviting me-
Jim
- cgrey8
- Supporting Member
- Posts: 4055
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:23 pm
- SM: No
- Location: Acworth, Ga (Metro Atlanta)
- Contact:
Re: Really really don't want cats
If you are capable of all that, then tuning is just something else to learn. However tuning is not "programming" like traditional programming. It's just setting predefined parameters to the right values and activating/deactivating logic as needed.
The hard part is learning the pieces to focus on first and what areas to ignore (and there'll be a lot to ignore in the early days). But once you start figuring out what pieces you need to mess with first, you'll start noticing "issues" that will guide you to other things in the tune to mess with. Even in the simplest strategies (late 80s and early 90s), there's probably 2/3rd of the stuff available to mess with that you will never need to mess with...but are available in case you need them or want to play with them. As you get into the more complicated defs (later 90s and 2000s), there's more and more stuff they cram into them and that means there's more and more in them that is important for you to know about and mess with.
The hard part is learning the pieces to focus on first and what areas to ignore (and there'll be a lot to ignore in the early days). But once you start figuring out what pieces you need to mess with first, you'll start noticing "issues" that will guide you to other things in the tune to mess with. Even in the simplest strategies (late 80s and early 90s), there's probably 2/3rd of the stuff available to mess with that you will never need to mess with...but are available in case you need them or want to play with them. As you get into the more complicated defs (later 90s and 2000s), there's more and more stuff they cram into them and that means there's more and more in them that is important for you to know about and mess with.
...Always Somethin'
89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller
Admin of EECtuning.org
89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller
Admin of EECtuning.org
- cgrey8
- Supporting Member
- Posts: 4055
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:23 pm
- SM: No
- Location: Acworth, Ga (Metro Atlanta)
- Contact:
Re: Really really don't want cats
Oh another detail about these headers, which is similar to other headers, is they require the use of the small-head bolts. Stock size bolts have heads that are too large to get a socket onto. The bolts that came with these headers from FMS were small head 12-pt bolts. My guess is you'll want to locate some of those. I also remember the FMS bolts being a tad short when combined with header lock washers. So get the longer versions.
You'll also definitely want to use high temp silicone gasket and/or header lock washers to prevent those bolts from coming out. I can't count the number of times I had leaks due to bolts backing out. The lock washers alone would've fixed it. However some tubes are bent such that you can't land on the head of the bolt with the washer in place. For those, I just used the silicone gasket on the threads. That proved to work well both with the old 302 and now with the 331.
Also note I'm saying silicone gasket, not thread locker. I tried thread locker (blue and red). Neither worked for me. I don't know if it was the heat or what. Regardless, the silicone gasket worked.
The header lock washers I used were from MrGasket. I don't recall how much I paid for them, but they weren't that expensive. One thing to note is they go on just fine, but if you ever have to remove the bolt, expect that the washer will crack and crumble as you back the bolt out particularly if this is after the engine has been run. As mentioned above, I also recall having to flatten them down in a vise to get my short FMS bolts to start to thread. There was still plenty of clamping force, but I wouldn't have had to do that if the header bolts had been another 1/4" longer.
You'll also definitely want to use high temp silicone gasket and/or header lock washers to prevent those bolts from coming out. I can't count the number of times I had leaks due to bolts backing out. The lock washers alone would've fixed it. However some tubes are bent such that you can't land on the head of the bolt with the washer in place. For those, I just used the silicone gasket on the threads. That proved to work well both with the old 302 and now with the 331.
Also note I'm saying silicone gasket, not thread locker. I tried thread locker (blue and red). Neither worked for me. I don't know if it was the heat or what. Regardless, the silicone gasket worked.
The header lock washers I used were from MrGasket. I don't recall how much I paid for them, but they weren't that expensive. One thing to note is they go on just fine, but if you ever have to remove the bolt, expect that the washer will crack and crumble as you back the bolt out particularly if this is after the engine has been run. As mentioned above, I also recall having to flatten them down in a vise to get my short FMS bolts to start to thread. There was still plenty of clamping force, but I wouldn't have had to do that if the header bolts had been another 1/4" longer.
...Always Somethin'
89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller
Admin of EECtuning.org
89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller
Admin of EECtuning.org
Re: Really really don't want cats
Groovy, thanks for the tips. I did know not to use locktite, heat destroys it.
We have bin stock with all kinds of bolts in 1/4" increments for non metric threads, grade 5 hex, grade 8 hex and socket heads which I love but a lot of peeps seem to hate. I attached my dodge ram 4.7 exhaust manifolds (after I milled the pretzel out of them) with socket heads and it has been a year so far no leaks.
Not familiar with the silicone gasket, simply the hi temp RTV or any particular brand? Should have used it on the dodge too.
I got shipping confirmation on the headers today, should get them by the end of the week.
We have bin stock with all kinds of bolts in 1/4" increments for non metric threads, grade 5 hex, grade 8 hex and socket heads which I love but a lot of peeps seem to hate. I attached my dodge ram 4.7 exhaust manifolds (after I milled the pretzel out of them) with socket heads and it has been a year so far no leaks.
Not familiar with the silicone gasket, simply the hi temp RTV or any particular brand? Should have used it on the dodge too.
I got shipping confirmation on the headers today, should get them by the end of the week.
Re: Really really don't want cats
BTW where can I see pics of your ranger?
- cgrey8
- Supporting Member
- Posts: 4055
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:23 pm
- SM: No
- Location: Acworth, Ga (Metro Atlanta)
- Contact:
Re: Really really don't want cats
I don't remember the brand, but it's the typical name brand for gasket-in-a-tube at Walmart, Autozone, etc. I think the hi temp silicone I used back then was orange. But I think they also make a hi-temp in black. The cast iron where the threads are is well cooled by the water jackets. So it's not like it is having to endure direct exhaust temps. But it does get hotter than the water does obviously. But well within the temp range of "high temp" silicone.JAMMAN wrote:...Not familiar with the silicone gasket, simply the hi temp RTV or any particular brand?...
...Always Somethin'
89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller
Admin of EECtuning.org
89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller
Admin of EECtuning.org
- cgrey8
- Supporting Member
- Posts: 4055
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:23 pm
- SM: No
- Location: Acworth, Ga (Metro Atlanta)
- Contact:
Re: Really really don't want cats
There are a few pics here and there on the forum. Is there anything specific that you wanted to see (i.e. engine, header, trans)?JAMMAN wrote:BTW where can I see pics of your ranger?
Or just a generic distance view of the truck itself?
...Always Somethin'
89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller
Admin of EECtuning.org
89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller
Admin of EECtuning.org
Re: Really really don't want cats
The guts LOL the motor stuffed in the engine compartment and how you have stuff hooked to it. Did you do a build thread?cgrey8 wrote:There are a few pics here and there on the forum. Is there anything specific that you wanted to see (i.e. engine, header, trans)?JAMMAN wrote:BTW where can I see pics of your ranger?
Or just a generic distance view of the truck itself?