And the 331 project finally begins...

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Re: And the 331 project finally begins...

Post by cgrey8 »

Yeah, it was annoying. But it just serves to reason why I bought a 2nd engine to do all this work to vs thinking I could get it all done on the existing engine. Best decision I've made given these circumstances. The good news is all the time gave me plenty of time to really research the build to the Nth degree. And I did end up with JE pistons and supposedly a stronger bottom end than I would've had otherwise. It all worked out. I just hope my luck holds out with the engine built and in the truck.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: And the 331 project finally begins...

Post by cgrey8 »

I got some more work done on the engine last night and today. For the most part, the engine is together. But there's odd-n-end stuff that still is waiting. I'm just about ready to put the lower intake on. I got it ported out, cleaned up, painted, and drill-n-tapped for the CNG inlet taps. I also got the upper, which was in bad shape, stripped of the flaking factory powder coat and repainted. Interested in pics, here they are:
EECTuning.org>Anybody ever used a Ford EEC with a CNG/LPG system?

Scroll up from this post to see what the intake did look like.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: And the 331 project finally begins...

Post by MalcolmV8 »

Looks good. Making some progress it looks like.
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

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Re: And the 331 project finally begins...

Post by cgrey8 »

Well my 1st post on this was back on May 2010. And it's finally getting towards the end. The plans and project have gotten project-creep like many other projects have. But that's ok. The time this project has taken has been worth it. It's given me time to research and verify that my plans and aspirations were the right things to do particularly as it relates to the addition of the CNG conversion. There are still some aspects of that portion of the project where I'm just crossing my fingers and hoping for the best. And only time will tell whether my approaches are going to work.

As my other post shows, my L&L mounts haven't held up as well as I would've hoped 7 years ago. But they haven't left me stranded. So I guess they can't be bashed. Anyway, I've got an email into L&L showing exactly what that thread is showing and we'll see what they say.

One of the more interesting things I noticed is when I pulled the clutch down, the clutch looked hardly worn at all. Even the flywheel didn't look bad. It has no lines or fingernail detectable ledges in it. It does have the little spots all over it. But an interesting thing is in the center of some of those spots is the obvious grooves from when I had it machined back 7 years ago. I know you aren't supposed to "reuse" clutch components, but in this case if the new clutch I bought for the 331 ever went bad, I wouldn't have any issues about reusing this Pressure Plate and disc just because they look so pristine. I'm not sure if that's because of such light duty daily driving or if the FMS King Cobras are just that much more superior to stock. Or perhaps a stock clutch would've looked the same and I'm just easily impressed.

Anyway, once the engine mount and steering box debocle are resolved, I'll be ready to get the engine back in. There is light at the end of the tunnel. The end just isn't likely to be by the end of this weekend. However I've waited this long. I can wait another week or so to do things "right."
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: And the 331 project finally begins...

Post by cgrey8 »

I didn't get nearly so much done today.

The 97 Ranger started acting up earlier this week. It got to cranking harder and harder. And then I started noticing WOT was bogging to the point that I could back off on the throttle and get more power than WOT was giving me. It was obviously running lean. So I just assumed it was either the fuel filter or fuel pump. So I did some searching. Turns out the stock pump for my 89 Ranger is the same as the stock pump for the 97 and I had 2 OEM replacement pumps in my toolbox. All I needed is the filter and the sock that goes on the end of the pump. I replaced the filter first. No change. If anything, things got worse. So with the help of a friend, we pulled the bed, got the pump out and I was immediately reminded that we have 10% ethanol in our fuel. The bar that the float is on was all rusted. The pump case was rusted. The rubber ring the pump sits in was partially disintegrated away. What rubber was left was brittle. The sock strainer on the end was also partially disintegrated and was no longer straining. But the pump wasn't the problem. The problem was the short piece of rubber hose above the pump. It had a blowout right in the side of it because it was almost as eaten up as everything else. So I replaced the the rubber hose, pump, rubber retaining ring, and strainer sock. Fuel pressure was restored and the truck cranks 1st try every time and WOT power is restored...still pathetic for a 4.0L, but that's nothing new.

Running around getting all this stuff and dealing with the 97 Ranger took away time I would've spent on the 89. But once everything was taken care of, I got back to the 89. With the help of the same friend that helped me get the 97 Ranger's bed on and off, he helped me get the trans, starter, driveshaft, AC box, and some of the wiring harness are now in. But that's as far as I got. I probably could've gotten the trans & AC box in by myself, but it was so much easier having a 2nd set of hands. The last "hard" thing left is take the bed of the 89 off to drill it out for the CNG tank mounts. But that doesn't need to be done for the truck to be driveable. And everything else left to get it running on gas is just installing light weight parts, connecting/crimping wires, and filling the trans and engine with oil/fluid.

One interesting thing I did learn looking at AutoZone's website is their OEM replacement fuel pump for my Rangers is rated for 30-35GPH (113-132lph) at 40PSI. That's significantly higher than the stock Ford 23.2GPH (88lph) fuel pump. Had I known AutoZone's OEM replacement pumps were this much higher flowing than the stock pump, I never would've bought the aftermarket high flow Walbro 155lph (went bad) or TREPerformance 255lph pumps. 30GPH is enough to fuel a 350hp engine with a 30% safety margin.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: And the 331 project finally begins...

Post by cgrey8 »

Well, the engine cranks and runs. But there are still some issues to sort out. It's idling awfully high but I'm thinking a lot of that is just tune. So I'll be sorting those things out as I find them.

The clutch also doesn't disengage. I think that's because this is a different brand clutch than the FMS King Cobra made by Valero and probably needs my clutch bar readjusted to bottom it out in the slave cylinder. I haven't played enough with it at all to figure anything out. But I'm not terribly concerned about it...yet.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: And the 331 project finally begins...

Post by MalcolmV8 »

I sort of lost track over time but this is the 331 you built yourself right? Always a good feeling to hear a new motor you just built come to life.
You'll definitely have some tuning issues with such a big change. I just dropped compression from 9.7:1 to 9.0:1 recently in my turbo'd civic and couldn't believe how much that threw off the a/f and spark. Required a lot more tune refinement than I would have ever guessed.
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

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Re: And the 331 project finally begins...

Post by cgrey8 »

Minor update. Engine runs better now, but there's still some concerns. They may just be things I have to live with. But I haven't determine for sure anything other than I'm making progress and things are getting better. Refer to that other thread on the EECTuning site for details:
Update from spring-bind fiasco
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: And the 331 project finally begins...

Post by MalcolmV8 »

I read that other thread and the issue of seeing a different AFR on each bank of cylinders is a mechanical fault that you need to address. I'm no expert but I've read quite a few tuning books to help me when I started tuning and they all point out differences in AFR between the banks of cylinders is mechanical and needs to be addressed as such and not compensated in some way by tune. IE fix all exhaust, intake etc. leaks.

As for your high idle I experienced something similar in my Cobra when I switched to a mono blade TB because it doesn't seal like the factory twin round units do. No mono blade does. I had to adjust something called "idle air integrator" which is a modeled representation of air coming in the engine at idle in the tune. I'm not sure if your ECC tuning software has something similar? I was using SCT's Pro Racer Package. Anyhow that helped it get down a little and then I had to pull some timing at idle to get it further down.

Good luck, sounds like you're heading in the right direction.
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

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Re: And the 331 project finally begins...

Post by cgrey8 »

In my case, the EEC is completely out of control of the airflow. The only tuning I could possibly do to drop the RPMs lower is to retard timing. That I can do in the tune and did do as an attempt to get control of the RPMs, but that was a hack at best.

What I've figured out is the Idle Air Control valve (aka Idle Speed Control) is what's bleeding the air through. I took it off and sure enough it's cracked open in the "closed" position. To read more about what I found and how I think I've fixed it for now, check out this thread:
How much should an IAC flow when closed?

As for the imbalance in the banks, yeah that's something I'm going to have to give some thought on and just watch the datalogs. It may be just a break-in thing? I don't know. The truck's coming together now. I'm getting fast at taking the wiring harness and intake on and off I've done it so many times now. That's not exactly something I wanted to get good at via repetition, but that's what happened, you know?

Tomorrow, I finish up the rest, do a final coolant flush to get all the crap out of it before filling it with antifreeze. Cold's acomin'.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: And the 331 project finally begins...

Post by MalcolmV8 »

Chris, pulling timing at idle to get rpms down isn't necessarily a hack if all other options are exhausted. It's info I picked up from some top notch tuners in the industry. Obviously pulling timing to compensate for a vacuum leak or something similar is a total hack.

As for IAC motor I believe it should seal completely when closed. I have a block installed on my intake like this for the IAC

Image

See so now my IAC is fed by an air line run from the intake tube. IAC is actually installed upside down in this pic which BTW does not work. They are very much directional devices so I came to find out.

Image

Here you can see the line to the intake tube pre throttle body

Image

The nice thing about that was I could pinch the air line, disconnect it etc. and experiment and get a good feel for how it behaves and bleeds air to the motor. On my car I can tell you once duty cycle gets below 25% or so it's essentially completely closed and can no longer control idle.

As for the difference in AFR across the banks I have never seen it personally. Not even on a brand new motor been broken in. You could pull the four injectors from one bank and swap them to the other bank and see if the problem follows the injectors. If so you could potentially have a bad injector. Have you tried an IR gun and checked temps on each header tube? Assuming you have headers.... not likely in that tight engine bay. You could also try swapping O2 sensors and see if the problem follows that indicating a bad or slightly off sensor.
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

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Re: And the 331 project finally begins...

Post by cgrey8 »

Well just to follow up, you mentioned what the problem was. I mounted the IAC valve backwards.
Image
Going back to pics of my engine bay with the 302 in it, I realized that was my problem. Yeah those things don't work when mounted backwards. Now that it's mounted correctly, I've got idle control back. I do still have a fuel trim bank differential which I'm not sure what's going on with yet. But at least I got hanging idle issues resolved.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: And the 331 project finally begins...

Post by MalcolmV8 »

Sweet, easy fix :) I like those. Sometimes all it takes is someone to mention some ideas and one of them will trigger a light bulb for you.
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

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cgrey8
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Re: And the 331 project finally begins...

Post by cgrey8 »

I've had so many problems solved for me by Internet forums. It makes me wonder how anything ever got done in the days before the Internet existed. It was this site and your photo-documentation of your Red Ranger project that gave the confidence and knowledge necessary to attempt a V8 conversion on my own truck back in 2006. I'm not sure I'd have that truck today if I hadn't found this site.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331, ported GT40p heads w/1.6RRs, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, ported Explorer lower, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, A9L w/Moates QuarterHorse, Innovate LC-1, James Duff traction bars, iDelta DC Fan controller

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Re: And the 331 project finally begins...

Post by MalcolmV8 »

I completely agree. It's opened up a world of possibilities for so many people myself included. My turbo project would never have been possible without the internet. At least not to the high quality it got done.

Almost every project I work on has a high degree of information out on the internet somewhere. The only area I feel like a pioneer was with the v8 rangers. Back in 1997 when I started my project there was no information on such a swap I could find so I made it up as I went and documented it and made v8-ranger.com :) The user base that's gotten on here and the amount of cumulative knowledge we've gathered here is just mind blowing. Some 15 years later you'd think I've seen every possible trick or interesting idea on a v8 ranger but to this day people still surprise me on the site with fresh ideas.
92 302 Ranger - sold
94 302 Ranger AWD - sold
07 BMW 335xi - tuned, boost turned up, E85 - sold
04 911 TT - to many mods to list. Over 600 All Wheel HP on pump gas - sold
2015 Coyote - daily driver
03 Cobra - 2.3 TVS on a built 12:1 CR motor with ported heads, cams, long tubes etc.
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
E85

Tuned by MD Racing

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